Winning Referral Partners: Actionable Steps for Loan Officers to Stand Out With Listing Agents

I always ask, is the closing still June 30th? Has anything changed? Is there any seller assist, anything I should know about? What I'd recommend when making these calls, Call your buyer's agent first, right?

Yes.

Because if there's some scoop or some, some knowledge that you need to know, you don't want to get caught, caught flat footed with the listing agent and say something stupid.

Hey everybody, welcome back to lending leadership. I get to be part of the mortgage pros today, which I'm thrill about. But today we're talking about listing agent, the listing agent advantage. And you know, I think everybody's looking for that next lead source, the next marketing tactic, the next piece of technology. But what if the biggest opportunity that you had to grow your business was always sitting right in front of you? Just like Dorothy, having the red shoes on. You've had the power all along. Sitting right in front of you guys is your listing agent, is your pipeline. So, so today we're going to get into just different ideas on how to grow your listing agent business.

We've got these two pros on. Let's jump in.

Awesome. Well, thanks for joining us today, Rachel.

Thank you for having me. Normally I'm in the background.

I think this might be the first time. And now listen, we have no one giving us direction behind the scenes. So this thing's going to go either amazing or completely off the rails.

This is completely raw. This is raw.

I don't know how I feel about the Dorf Dorothy shoes reference given that Dave only wears Birkenstocks.

So I'm off Birkenstocks.

I'm off graduated.

It's too mainstream for you.

I'm not gonna even say what I just bought after my big hike. But we'll talk about it on the side. But they're not Birkenstocks. Way more comfortable.

The, the Dorothy reference is because, you know, Glinda told her she had the power all along. And how many times do we think like, oh, I need this or I need this when really what you need is right in front of you the whole time. Right. And I feel like that really applies to our agents and our loan officers who are like, I need this, I need this. Well, it's like, well, guess what, you got that pipeline. You got that right there.

I love this topic because you're so right. We see so many people just chase magic bullets, right? And they think that there's this one thing that's going to transform their business and we keep coming back to the same, the same things over and Over. It's having a plan, it's being consistent, it's being intentional, and it's. It's putting in the work. And this is a perfect example of that. This isn't sexy, it's not glamorous, it's not bright and shiny, but if you do it, it will yield massive results.

I was at a conference three or four years ago. Robert was there, and we were going around the room. It was a smaller group. And the commentator said, what's the most powerful piece of technology that you use every day? And I thought long and hard about it, all the bells and whistles that we have. And I said, what's the number one thing for you, Dave? And I held up my phone, I said, this is the most powerful thing, piece of technology that you have. And on my office door, I have a picture of the phone, of a phone and says, use this. I make you money. And what we're going to talk about today isn't really magic for some people, but for some people, it may be enlightening and it's easy to do.

In this case, the listing agent wants to take your call, expects your call, sometimes is surprised in a good way about your call. And if you have a pipeline, if you have, like, a decent pipeline of 20 loans, it shouldn't take you more than a couple hours a week to do consistently. And I truly believe, and I know Robert's with me on this, and Rachel, you are, too, that it is the number one thing to move your pipeline today. You can implement it Today, and within 60 or 90 days, you will have more transactions and more referral partners. And again, it's easy and it's free. And if you're a working loan officer, you should be working 40 to 50 hours a week, Right? And this is going to take less than 10% of your week and will move the needle more than anything you do. A hundred percent.

Yeah. And I just want to. I want to say one. One thing before we really dive in. You believe in this so much that when we talked about this internally with our own loan officers, you put a challenge out there. You said, I will Personally write a $1,000 check if you do this system. And it doesn't work, because, honestly, you know, again, the things that are right in front of us, we don't do. And even sometimes the things we know we should do, we're not doing.

So I love that you gave that challenge, but I do want to back up even further because I think a lot of times, you know, maybe we've had People listening to the podcast for quite some time now and we could probably do a better job of maybe singing our own praises a little bit. I don't want you, our listeners, just to take this as gospel and think that we don't know what we're talking about. Right. Like, Dave, you have closed more than 7,500 loans in your 26 year career. You've produced, you know, I think one year you had close to 200 million in fundings, which is incredible. And you know, we're not always patting ourselves on the back. But Dave, you've had an incredible career and Robert, you as well. And you know, still being in the trenches, you could be out of it now, Dave, if you, if you wanted to be.

But you're still in it. You're still, you know, this market and this, this season that we're in is so different. Right. Because of AI, because of all these different factors. And yet some of the oldest and, and the same things that were true 10, 15, 20 years ago are still true today. Perfect example. Like your phone, pick up the dark.

Absolutely. I mean, and consistency wins all the time. Right. And it's always AI and technology. 100% plays a role in our business. Right. It has to. Right.

For efficiency cases. But the old school blocking and tackling, the boring stuff loan officers don't want to do, really move the needle. And if I look at, you know, we know, Robert and I and you know, top loan officers all around the country, we know top loan officers around our branch in our company and they do the boring blocking and tackling day in and day out and that's why they're top producers.

Yeah, yeah. I love it.

You know, as we dive into this, what, what I love about it, it's, I've never seen this not work, by the way. So that challenge that Dave issued is pretty safe. It's not.

He didn't. I knew it was.

I knew he didn't go out on too much of a limb there. It's like, oh, okay, what's the safest bet I can make? There he went. So. But what I love about this is it's, it's really a double edged sword. Right. Because not only is it going to help you grow your business and put new deals in and new relationships in, but it's also going to set you apart from the rest of your competition in the way that you communicate, in the level of customer service that you are providing. You're going to be a proactive communicator when you implement this system and it's going to put you head and shoulders above everyone else that you're, you know, that has a deal going with these agents or that they've worked to deal with. Dave, you say all the time that if an agent has to call you for an update, you've already failed.

And I love that. I think it's so just true. And tell us a little bit about what you mean by that.

Well, you know, my value proposition is we close on time every time. We keep you updated throughout the transaction. We follow up with their leads quickly. Easy to say to do harder in practice. Right. So if a buy agent or list agent calls me for an update on the, on a file, where's the appraisal at? Are we clear to close? Are we all set for closing? That means me and my team have failed with our communication. They should never guess where we're at with our transaction now. We're not perfect.

I'm the first one to admit it. I don't always practice what I preach. Like right now, I think we have 50 plus loans in our pipeline. It's hard to keep everyone updated, but I think we do a pretty good job through the techniques that we're talking about. And it's also the right thing to do. Right. You really should keep your buy agent informed. Right.

They're the ones sending you the deal. And you should keep the list agent informed too. It helps for a smoother transaction all along. So listing agent is in a better place mentally on the transaction. Their sellers are as well too. So if something does happen, and something happens on a lot of transactions, a lot of things we can't control. If it's a home inspection issue, title issue, appraisal issue, something goes sideways with the bars. Communication is key and it helps smooth the transaction over for everyone, including most importantly your buyer.

Right. Because the end goal is to represent the buyer in a great fashion. And this certainly helps that.

Hold on one second, Rachel. I love that and I think that, you know, that consistency builds the trust and that connection builds loyalty. And that level of service that you provide to the buyer sets you apart. So you get that repeat business and those follow on referrals. And you know, not to toot our own horn, but toot, toot. Right. We were just named, we were just, we were just named a top performer in customer experience and that graphics out there. And, and a lot of our los were in the top 100.

We had several more in the top 500 across the nation. Right. So, and, and I've, I've said for Years. And we agree on this. I know we're in the customer service business. Like, ultimately we are a hospitality customer service industry. We just provide that service through the, through the mortgage channel. So this ties in.

Right. Perfect. With that

in the way I start this off and maybe to kick this off, like the first thing I do, I don't always do it, but when asked, I always do it and I generally volunteer it. When an offer is going in on a property with a buyer, I always want to call the listing agent, even if I know her or him. Right. Introduce myself or reintroduce myself, let them know what we've done on the file, kind of present my offer. Right. And we're going to touch on this in a little bit. You know, you have to be careful how you present the offer. I speak in generalities.

Right. So if Robert is the listing agent and Rachel is my customer, it'll be something along these lines. Hey, Robert, it's Dave Holland with HMA Mortgage. Do you have a minute to chat? Right. And I always want to have kind of that awkward question because. Go ahead, Rachel.

I was just going to say I want to chime in with that. Don't people think it's a cold call when you're doing that?

They're like a lot of times. Yeah.

Another. Another loan officer calling me. Like, I'm sure people get a little snarky.

Yeah. Sometimes, like, sometimes like, I got a minute. Or like, what do you want? Right.

And I like, why are you calling me?

Why are you calling me? Leave me alone. Right.

Well, I kind of like that because it sets the tone. Like, like, why is this guy calling me? Right. Maybe that's not the best technique. I like doing that because I like a little bit of conflict. So. So I'm just calling you, you know, my customer, Rachel, is putting an offer on your listing at 45 W. Main St. I just wanted to tell you a little about her as a buyer and then I'll go into, you know, just an FYI, here's what my team does.

We obviously pull credit. They're pre approved. I've reviewed W2s, pay stubs, bank statements. We've all. We've run it through our credit approval engine. We have an approval. If we do a platinum pre approval, which we fully underwrite the file, I'll let them know that as well, too. And then oftentimes I'll get into that.

We have an appraisal, local appraisal panel that has great appraisers on it that I've known for A while. And if you don't have that, you probably have some sort of appraisal panel at your company. It's a great way to toot that horn to kind of mitigate the risk of an appraisal going south. Say, hey, you know, I'm looking forward to working with you. If you or your seller has any other questions, I'd be more than happy to answer them. You know, within guardrails, I don't say that. But if they start asking me really granular information, I will not get into that, obviously. And I'll just pivot and say, that's not something obviously I can disclose for privacy purposes.

But I let them know we've done a great job on reviewing the file. And a lot of times that sets their mind at ease. Because if you're competing against, like a big bank that may not have a good reputation or a big. A big mortgage company that can sometimes help you win a deal.

Absolutely.

So it's important.

And.

And then the listing agent knows that, like, you're. You're an. A player that you called, and oftentimes they're surprised and say, I've never gotten the call like that before. So. Sets you apart right out of the gate.

Okay. I know. Robert and I are both ready to pounce with a question. I want to jump in, though, because this seems very obvious to me. So. So number one, are people just not doing this? And number two, is there a misconception about listing agents out there that they seem scary or unapproachable?

Well, I mean, Robert can chime in. You're in the mortgage business.

Yeah.

You should be talking to realtors to everybody. Yeah. I mean, if you don't. Job description.

Yeah. If you're scared. If you're scared to make this call and give this basic information and have a conversation, you're probably in the wrong business.

Yeah, agreed. Agreed. And again, don't give away personal information. It's an easy call to make. It takes less than a couple minutes. Very few times do you get the seller calling you with questions in a multiple offer situation, which in a lot of places in this country, they're very competitive markets. It's. It truly sets your offer apart and helps you retain the customer, too.

Right? It helps. It helps you retain the customer because you're. You're bringing. I believe this is true value. Specifically in a multiple offer situation.

It makes the. Yeah. It makes the client stickier also. So.

Yeah. Yeah. It's winning all around.

I really. I like that. This puts you more in a proactive seat rather than just reacting like you were saying before, if, if anyone has to call you on the deal, then. Then you've not done your job. So this is making it very, very proactive. I love that. I do. I'm curious if people don't answer their phone, because a lot of times people, if they don't know the phone number, they won't answer or they'll.

They'll let it go to voicemail. Will you. Will you give this same information over a voicemail or are you really waiting to speak to them live?

Well, if it's an update or an intro, once we get the transaction, I want to speak to them live. Right. But in this case, it depends. It really depends on the weekend, my workload, stuff like that. What I like to do is sometimes make a video message. And if you're not into that, or if I'm, you know, feeling like a coward, I will leave a voice memo. I think a voice memo is a lot more powerful, right? Because they hear a voice instead of looking at, like the AI transcript of the call. And then you can see if they actually listen to it.

Because once a voice memo is listened to, it deletes. So you can see that.

That's interesting because. Well, it's interesting because voice memos drive me nuts. I hate them. Oh, really? Someone on this call does them all the time. I'm not going to say who, Rachel, but, like, send me a text. I know you do, but yeah, the voice memo just drives me nuts because then I got it. You got to, like, hold it up. You got to listen to it and like, just let me read.

Well, do you know that I do that strategically? No, it is odd subject.

I get it. I get it.

Yeah. Because I'm like, I don't know if he read this text and I need to know that Robert heard this information. So to Dave's point, when it disappears, you know, someone's listened to it. This might be a little off topic, but I'm going to go there anyway because we did have. I think this podcast is going to drop before this one where we had Brian Galky on. He's a facial expert, recognition expert. And it's important to know someone's love language. Like when you get to know your realtors and your referral partners, to know if they are not voice memo people.

Don't send them a voicemail if they are not texters or if they don't even. Hopefully everyone's checking their email. But if they're not checking their email, don't send them any, you know, find what their communication, love, language is and

lean into that meeting where they are.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So we've set up a lot of the, the, the why behind this. And I love all of it, I think, I mean, again, I said it already. I've never seen it not work. That's something my team uses. But, you know, we keep coming back to the consistency and that there has to be a plan and, and there has to be a way that you do this. So let's, let's shift gears a little bit, David, and give us the nuts and bolts. Like, what's this look like? How's it work? When do you do it? What? Like give us some takeaways here, man.

So, you know, the easiest thing to do. A lot of this depends on your pipeline, right? So I have three assistants who work with me side by side that are responsible for each transaction. So I'll do Taylor on Tuesday, Tiffany on Wednesday, Karen on Thursday. I'll update their customers or their, their realtor partners on those days. I don't do it every week. I flip flop with them because again, I got 50 loans in my pipeline. It's, it's just too daunting. I don't have the time to do it.

So.

But you know, if you have a, a more modest pipeline, pick a day. If that day is Tuesday, that's, that's the day traditionally we do it. The day is Tuesday. Let the agent know, I'm going to call you every single Tuesday with an update.

My Tuesdays are really full. I got a lot of stuff on Tuesday.

Okay, great. I'll call you on Wednesday then.

Okay. Yeah, so. And I was saying that like I'm the loan officer telling you my Tuesday's really full.

Oh, this would switch to Wednesday or Thursday.

Thursday. Just pick a damn day. It doesn't matter what day.

I wouldn't recommend doing it Monday because Monday or Friday, traditional busy day for us in mortgages and for realtors for all the obvious reasons we don't dig into. And then Friday, sometimes people aren't working as hard. So Friday is not a good day either. But pick a day. You know, trust is built on small promises kept. Call them every day. And if they say, just text me, you know, I'd rather call you because information, you know, I can get information from you too. That would help the transaction.

If they're adamant about it and say, just text me. Cool. Send them a voice memo. Meet them where they are so at least they hear you every day and don't be afraid. Don't think, oh, this listing agent is going to be really annoyed if I update them every Tuesday. They're not, they're not going to be annoyed if they're annoyed with, with updated information. It is what it is and they'll tell you.

Yeah, I mean, I've had listing agents that, you know, this, this is powerful, though. I've had listing agents that knew us, we'd built trust with, we'd worked with in the past, and they would tell me, robert, I know you, I know your team. I know you've got it. You don't have to call me. I only need to hear from you if something is going sideways. Otherwise, I know you have it under control. It's in. It's in the back.

Cool. Send them a voice memo. Yeah, still send them a voicemail voice memo. And then, you know, also with our transactions, our CRM updates both agents and the buyer at various milestones. It's not enough updates, but it's like the big updates, right? Application was made, loan is approved, appraisals back. Then we'll, you know, send the appraisal, the buy agent and the borrower, and then we'll text the listing agent as soon as we get the appraisal in. And never say it came in $10,000 over or $15,000 over. Don't do that, because that's going to screw up your transaction.

Just say it met value, and if they ask what it came in at, say it met value. Just. Just leave it like that. Just leave it like that. But then, you know, kind of moving along logistically. When I get the transaction in, when I get the sales agreement, I'll call and introduce myself or reintroduce myself and say, I'm going to call you every Tuesday or Wednesday, whatever that day is. Looking forward to working with you. If you have any questions, let me know.

My goal is to keep you updated throughout the entire transaction and looking forward to working with you.

And then you better call. Then you. If you say you're going to do something, just like you said, the integrity is where small computers, promises are kept. Make sure that you call. And there's nothing with calling a day early. I think it's when you call a day late, you know, if you're going to be on vacation and you just say, hey, I know I'm going to be on vacation tomorrow or later this week when I'm supposed to call you. Wanted to call you a little early. I think that that shows real trust.

And if you are a Day late. Don't skip a week. Just say I got tied up on Tuesday. But I realize I didn't call you, I apologize. They're probably not going to remember that, right? No, but, but I did want to update you. So don't, don't skip the calls because there are, there is so much power in these calls. And again, it's easy. You have their commission in your hands.

You know, I've had ellos tell me and I'm sure Robert's got the same thing. Well, I don't want disturb them. I don't want to, I don't want them to get angry or calling. I had one guy tell me, I don't want them to have my cell phone number. So if something goes sideways, they know where to get me. Well, first of all, like if, if that's what your, your, your headspace is at, to Robert's point, you probably shouldn't be a loan officer. Right.

Because deals or in sales at all.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or sales at all. Because deals do go sideways. Sometimes it's our fault. Sometimes there's a title issue, survey issue, appraisal issue. But at least you have an open line of communication and you have a rapport with them that you're able to solve the issue and you're not going into it cold, looking like a chump.

Well, and actually you bring up a really good point and I'm curious if either of you have any stories when making these calls. You probably uncover maybe some things that are going astray or maybe things that you didn't realize were an issue that you can combat early because you got on the phone with them because you, you figured it out before it snowballed and became a bigger issue. I mean, I'm sure that's happened to both of you at different points.

100%. Like if the home inspection's going bad, it's good to know that if the closing is getting moved up or delayed, it's good to know that I always ask, is the closing still June 30th? Has anything changed? Is there any seller assist, anything I should know about, what I'd recommend when making these calls? Call your buyer's agent first. Right?

Yes.

Because if there's some scoop or some, some knowledge that you need to know, you don't want to get caught, caught flat footed with the listing agent and say something stupid.

And that's a good rule of thumb across the board. Always. Right. Call the buyer's agent first. Because if I've seen, I've preached this for years you got something that's a little squirrely, you call the customer first, they're going to immediately hang up with you and call the buyer's agent. And then the buyer's agent's like, what the hell? Always call the buyer agent first.

Yes, yes.

I want stories. I want to know about a deal that's been saved or something that's happened. Do you have any.

I can tell you a deal. And this is interesting. So it wasn't the deal, right. So I was making these calls. We had a deal in process, and lo and behold, the listing agent that I was updating had a separate listing with a deal, a VA deal that was using a big national VA lender. We're not going to say their name, but they're the last word. Rhymes with punited. So anyway, that deal is going sideways, right? So that listing agent asked, actually asked me, like, as I'm updating on the other deal, hey, do you do VA loans? Can I ask you about this? And long story short, we swooped in and saved that deal.

Saved the day, got another deal in the pipeline, pulled that listing agent over and saved a veteran a lot of money, which was kind of cool.

That's very cool. That's very cool.

And just by making these calls to Robert's point, you'll kick up deals that you didn't have before for that reason that Robert mentioned and 100 of hundred other reasons.

Dave, I've heard you.

Go ahead, Ray.

I was gonna take it in your meeting. I didn't know. Okay, let me just drop this. And then, and then I want to hear what you've got, too. I've heard you refer to this kind of as an audition. What do you, can you, can you dive into that a little bit more? Because I, you know, yeah, the actress in me loves a good audition, but I think I really like thinking about it in that mindset.

Absolutely.

You know, when you're, when you're doing these updates, you know, from the intro call, when you're presenting your mortgage offer to the listing agent, the intro and updates the entire way. You know, 90% of loan officers aren't doing this. So they're thinking, wow, Dave is proactive. Dave has kept me updated. I'm going to give Dave a try. Right. Doesn't always happen. Right.

It's, you know, it's probably less than 20%, maybe even less than that. Maybe they have a rock star loan officer who's doing the same thing. But at least it gets you in the game. Right? Because these aren't cold Calls. These are warm calls the agents want to hear from you. Right? So if you do this consistently over time, not for a week, not for two weeks, not for a month, if you do overtime for 90 days, six months or a year, you will get more referral partners. Because a lot of people aren't doing this because it seems scary, but this is the easiest phone call that you can make because they want to hear from you. Your commission is their hands in.

The number one complaint of Realtors is, you know, both buy and list. I have no idea where my deal is on the mortgage. Yeah, that's the number one complaint they have of Velos.

So you've got this system. You're making these calls. We're calling buyer's agent, first listing agent, client. But you don't go into these calls cold. You do a little bit of prep work, especially before the first call. Right. With a, with a new listing agent. So what does that prep work look like? What kind of conversation is that? First conversation, like, what's that sound like?

You know, the prep work is I just know where the file's at. Right. The initial phone call, how often the loan has been locked, the title work has been ordered, the appraisal has been ordered. Right. So I'll walk into the conversation. Hey, Robert, it's Dave Holm with HMA Mortgage. Do you have a minute to talk? You know, we talked about that. Then I'll say, just want to give you an update.

Everything's moving along on the Smith transaction. Appraisal has been ordered. It's due July 10th. Title work has been ordered. It's with XYZ Title Company. And the loan. We're waiting on two minor items from the borrower and the loan should be submitted and we should have. We're really quick and underwriting.

We should be back in two or three days. And then you'll get a CRM message from my team throughout the transaction at every milestone. So you'll see via email when my loan is approved, make sure that I'm not. I'm whitelisted. I'm not going to your junk. Then I'll do like a little research. Like, I know a lot of the agents in my area in Pittsburgh, but if I don't, I'll. Maybe I'll do a little due diligence, a little digging, and mention something that I saw on social media, something soft.

I was just gonna ask, do you do any, you know, kind of Facebook stalk and get into any, any relational conversation, frog or rapport building or anything with that or is it just. Is it the facts and just the facts?

No. I'll do some rapport building. It depends on the agent. Right. If I think I can connect with that person.

Kind of read the call a little bit.

What's that?

I'm sorry? Kind of. Kind of read the call, Read their vibe a little bit.

Yeah, absolutely. And some people want to get you off the phone as quickly as possible. That's okay. So I'll drop my update and say, hey, looking forward to working with you. If you or your seller has any questions, you know, reach out to me. So I will do a little of that. And if I have a great first call, like, I called an agent on Tuesday and she told me she was going on vacation somewhere. We chatted about where she was going up.

She was going to Atlantic City. We have a big branch there. So kind of got into that. And then I have in my notes when I call her next week, I was Atlantic City. Did you gamble at all? You know, I gave her a restaurant tip. I gave her Chef Vola Robert and said, hey, this is a really cool place. Check it out. You know, it may not look great from the outside, but it was one of my better.

One of my better experiences I had for dinner last year.

Did you tell her it's going to be really hard to get in? I didn't.

I let her find that out the hard way. I told her to make reservations, though.

Okay. All right. Fair.

Yeah. I love that. I think that's really important. I think that relationship building, if it. If the time allows. And of course, you read the conversation, read the room, but I think that's a differentiator, you know, that building of. To see what friend connects you have in common, you know, who. Who else, you know, or maybe your kids were on a team together.

And especially. I don't think it's 6 degrees or 7 degrees of separation anymore. I think it's more like 2 or 3. And especially if this realtor is in your hometown, you know, like, to make that personal connection of like, oh, hey, yeah, our kids were in the same dance class, or, oh, my child goes to that school also, or, you know, to have some kind of familiar connection. It. It just makes you more human.

Yeah. It humanizes you. Absolutely, absolutely. Just take. Just, you know, you don't need some, like, War and Peace biography on the person.

Just. Just.

Just take some quick notes. Right. And here's something I want to make sure everyone knows, too, when I'm giving these updates. Right. And I'll be honest with you, like, I don't have, like, I. I have a good memory when it comes to business. Right. But I don't have every transaction memorized.

Right. I know the basic facts. Hey, we're, you know, later on the transaction, we're waiting on title, homeowner's insurance, real estate taxes, couple minor items from the borrower, and, you know, if the buy agent or list agent goes, you know, what about XYZ on the transaction? You know what? I'm not 100% sure about that. Let me check with my team. And is okay if I text you back? No one's going to think, oh, Dave doesn't know every single detail that transaction. They're never going to think that. Just make sure you know how to pivot. Right? And again, you know, you're in sales, so you should know.

I'll check on that and I'll text you back in an hour. Is that okay? Like, ask for their permission and they're always going to say yes.

Oh, I don't disagree at all. Dave, you can't let the fact that I may not know every detail intimidates you from making these calls. Pick up the phone. Pivot if you need to. You know, you just mentioned something that I'm curious about. You know, because you're in sales. We are in sales. How often on these conversations do you ask for more business or additional business or set.

Set. How often do you put an offer out there, some call to action?

Oh, yeah, that's good.

Usually depends how the conversations go. Again, read the room. But towards the middle of the transaction, I'll say something along the lines of like, hey, Robert, how we doing so far? Are these updates helpful? And no one's going to say no. Oh, these updates are awful. Don't you know these aren't useful?

I like that. I think that's so simple. I haven't really heard it. I know, it's such a simple phrase. How we. How am I doing? Yo, how you doing? How am I doing? But I think that is a really approachable and easy way to say it. Like, hey, how am I doing so far? Oh, I really. I like that.

Yeah. So just put that little nugget in. Like, halfway through, they're going to say, yeah, you're doing a great job. I really like the updates and say, great. You know, I'd love to work with you in the future. Are there any buyers that you're working with that I should be talking to? And often they'll say yes, but they're lying. Right? But often because they want to get you off the phone. Right.

They don't want to say, no, I don't want to work with you. But often they'll mean it and they'll send you a buyer. So you just. If you don't ask, you're not going to get.

If you don't ask, you're not going to get. I've talked about this for years. You have to. And I would actually challenge you, Dave. I like that. I love the way that you're doing that. A little bit more personable. I would challenge you to work on every call with a end.

Every call with a call to action. Hey, it's been great chat with you today. There's any buyers that you know are looking, you know, to buy or sell, refinance, any family, friends or co workers, I'd love to chat with them. Keep me in mind. Well, you. Can I count on you to do that? Like getting that reputation of ending that I like yours as you're deeper in the transaction as well as part of the conversation. But this is what I've said for years. We're nervous to pick up the phone to call agents, you know, what if they don't like me? What if they have another.

Another lender? What if I don't do the kind of loans they need? What if, what if, what if, what if, what if? They're a lot of times maybe nervous to send business to us. Dave's a top lender in Pittsburgh. He's too busy. My buyers aren't the kind that he wants. I don't do enough business for him. You know, he doesn't like the way I look. Whatever the case may be, they have this playing in their mind. So when you say, hey, I love working with you, do you have any family, friends or co workers that I might be able to help? Can I count on you to send them my way? You remove all of that doubt and give them permission to send you more business like that little thing alone can change the whole game of your conversation.

And like we've said before, as we've been coach Robert, it sounds weird leaving your mouth.

Sounds weird.

Sounds weird, feels weird.

I've said it. I've said it probably 10,000 times. It feels weird. Did it sound weird?

Didn't sound weird at all.

Nope.

Right? It felt. It felt. I'm not even pitching you. We're having a conversation. Felt awkward as hell still to say it.

Yeah, absolutely.

But you know what?

It doesn't sound weird to hear.

No, it really doesn't. And I think that is that is a key thing people need to remember, like have that actor in you come out because nobody knows or can see what you're feeling on the inside. As long as you're saying it confidently, if you're in person, you're saying it with a smile. You're not like fidgeting and you know, tight. Saying this just make it conversational. And the more you say it, the more you practice it. I'm a big fan of practicing in front of the mirror, practicing those things that you're going to say and then they just become routine, right? They just become part of the standard of how you phrase things, how you speak.

And here's the thing, you're never going to get so rejected by someone after saying any of these lines that you're just going to go cower in the corner and roll up in the fetal position and cry. It's. It's just never gonna happen.

I love that you brought up rejection because as we, as we turn the corner, as we round third and head towards home, I did want to come up with. I want to role play a little bit, Dave. And I want to give you some of the common pushbacks that you might hear and see how you're going to respond. Rachel, why don't you take one or two of these and I'll take one or two of these and I know

this was part of it. Oh boy.

Yeah, Throwing you on the spot there, big dog. Okay.

I love it.

Hey listen, Dave, I don't know if you know this, but I'm super important and really busy and I don't have time to get on the phone with you. Just send me your. Just send me emails. My team's going to handle it. Just send me emails.

Awesome. We'll send you emails with updates. Happy to do that. And I'm also going to send you voice memos as well too, so you hear it right away. Is that okay?

Yeah, that's all right. Thanks.

Okay. Awesome. Awesome.

Robert.

Really looking forward to working with you. Reach out to me anytime if you have questions. I do have someone on call from 10am to 6pm on the weekend. If you need something, then just hit my team line and they'll reply back within an hour. How's that sound?

Sounds great, thank you. Okay.

Have a great weekend, buddy.

Okay, here's one. Here's one that you probably hear all the time too. Like, you know, I already send my business to a lender. It's my sister in law, you know, I already have someone I'm working with.

Awesome. You're a full time agent. I wouldn't expect anything less. I would love to be on the roster in case your sister in law can't do a transaction. Check us out sometime. We'd love to work with you and one of your buyers.

Oh, well played. I don't know, I. I give that like a. See, I give that like an 8.5 maybe. Maybe even a 9.

I'll take it.

Yeah, I'll take it.

Listen, here's the thing. Every single agent has someone they send someone to.

Yeah.

Right. They're a realtor. Of course they have some. Like, don't be surprised. Like what Rachel has. The lender they refer to. Of course she does. Like she's, she's not been waiting around the last 17 years of her career waiting for you to call.

Of course she has.

Will Dave Holland call me today? I used to. This is what I used to said. I used to say, of course you are. You're a rock star. Why wouldn't you? Right? Every band has a backup bass player though. Can I be yours? Right.

I like that.

I like that.

Do you play the bass?

No, but it ties into the rock star. Right. I also used to say even Tom Brady has a backup. Right? Like something along those lines. Yeah.

It's true.

Yeah.

And you don't know what's going on. Maybe they're, maybe they're frustrated with, with their current lender. Maybe their current lender just went on vacation for two weeks and just peaced out and didn't do anything. Right. There's a whole, you don't know what's going on in their real estate business world. And it's important. You're not going to get every single listing agent you call. It's going to be a small percentage, right? I'd probably say it's less than 10%.

This is basically all I did was pick up the phone and call realtors. That was it. Simple. And then they refer you to other realtors and it's a whole ripple effect.

I love this. I feel like this is really giving a lot of value and some great tangibles. I think we do that just in general with this podcast, that's the whole idea. We don't just want to be more noise. We really want to add value and give people takeaways. So if you're listening, go back, jot down some notes. You know, we have a whole.

If you email us, we have a whole presentation that we can send you that we did for our internal team that we're happy to send. This isn't. This isn't rocket science. This isn't a secret. We're happy to share it.

Or as I like to say, rocket surgery.

Rocket surgery.

It's not rocket surgery. I love it. Well, you know, Dave, if. If every loan officer listening today committed to doing one thing, maybe just one thing differently this week, what do you think that would be?

Just picking up. Just picking up the phone. Picking up the phone. Yeah. Do a little planning. Sunday night, Monday morning, have your call list ready to go. Have it thought through so you're not fumbling around, which I do often, and just start hitting the phone. The calls are easy.

You know, the calls are easy. People want to want the updates. They appreciate them. It's free. And I'm not asking anyone who's listening to commit to 20 or 25 hours of phone calls a week. We're talking for the average pipeline. Robert, what do you think? Less than two or three hours? Max.

Two hours max. Max for the average pipeline?

Yeah.

I mean that honestly, if we're being real, the average pipeline is probably 40 minutes to an hour.

Yeah, yeah. Pick a day. Block that time off like you're going to the doctors or going your, you know, going to your kids dance recital or having surgery. Like just block the time off, make it non negotiable and just get in the habit of doing it. That's it. Like anything else in life.

I love it. This is good stuff, guys.

Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for being on Rachel.

Yeah, thank you. Thank you for having me on our own podcast.

Rachel's usually our producer, a little plug for her. She does her own own podcast, the Creative Brief. What's the full title?

It's still Lending Leadership. Same podcast. You guys are listening to the Creative Brief.

The Creative Brief. We're the mortgage.

Hopefully people are listening and watching that too.

And that's the right name, right? Lending Leadership with the mortgage pros.

Oh, yes. They like funny, really cute inside joke. But no, guys, this has been great. And you know, I think one of the biggest takeaways just in sales in general, right? It's communication. It's about keeping people informed and building that trust. I think that is so important in any line of sales and creating that confidence in ourselves to pick up the darn phone. We know this. We've been talking about it forever, but I really think that it is earning the right to do business together and showing people auditioning for them and earning their business.

So we'd love to hear if you've never done this before, if you're listening and this is a tactic you've never tried before, give it a try. Give us a comment below and make sure you're listening to Lending Leadership with the Creative Brief with me and Corinne on the flip side. But. But this has been great today, guys. Thank you so much everyone. Don't forget to like and subscribe and we'll catch you next time.

Thanks so much.

Thanks Gu.