How Authenticity and Social Media Drive Mortgage Growth with Dan Anderson

So I started just doing social media and it was awkward, it was horrible, it was embarrassing. I look like a moron. I probably still do. But I just knew that in time it got easier and easier and easier.

What if the biggest opportunity for loan officers today isn't just another lead source, but it's actually becoming someone people remember? Today's guest is none other than HMA's own Dan Anderson. Actually, this is his second appearance and it is also the two year anniversary of Dan and his team joining hma. That honestly has not only transformed his production, but the way he connects with his community through social relationships. He's got a heart for giving back. And today we're talking about influence, authenticity, and why building your reputation may be the best investment you make in yourself and in your business. So, Dan, thank you so much for joining us. Welcome to Lending Leadership. Let's kick it off, boys.

Welcome, Dan.

Thank you. I appreciate it. I don't know how I'm going to follow what you just said, because that was so articulated, right?

Yeah, it's humbling when Rachel intros. You're right.

Great, thanks. Appreciate that. Rachel, can you just do a whole job so we can look better?

Well, listen, you're already looking better. I mean, you put this great video out on Instagram talking about your experience so far with HMA two years in. But I want to back up, I want to go back to the beginning because how you got introduced to this crazy crew that we call HMA is pretty. It's a pretty good story.

It is. Dave, why don't you take that off? I think you're the story.

Yeah, I mean, it's all because of COVID At the end of the day, it all happened because of COVID because I'll get there. My wife and I had a canceled trip to Jamaica or Dominican or Mexico, I can't remember. So we, oh, we're the only ones that didn't get trip insurance. So we only had three more months to take it. Don't. Don't give me that look. Trip insurance is like gambling. I'm not going to take it.

So.

And, and here we are. So if it wasn't for Covid and a pool bar in Jamaica, me and Dan never, never would have connected.

Yeah, it's, it is crazy. That's probably the one thing I'm grateful for and that's probably the only good thing I'm grateful for of the past. But yeah, it's been exciting. I mean, I reached out to you. You, you were down, like, let's go. You, you flew in, you brought Tom. We had a great first time meeting and going through a lot of details. And then Robert got the tail end of that.

He did get to have as much fun. And I don't, I couldn't keep up with days. One or two beers the second night. So it was definitely a good bonding experience. But I could tell you, you know, you went through everything. You're transparent on numbers, you're transparent on rates, transparent on everything. And two years in, it's. Here we are, we're still here, we're still doing it, and everything is the same and better.

You know, I don't mean the same, like, you know, just the same. But a lot of companies, a lot of people I think will sell you and want to get you in, get you all excited and then once you start doing that, things just start changing. Slowly, slowly start changing until it becomes a big problem on all sides. I could say HMA hasn't done that. And if anything, you guys just keep leveling it up and increasing and trying to get better. And I think most of the losses are just trying to keep up.

It's.

It's pretty impressive.

Well, you know, that, that, that think that's what's great about our company and our culture. And Dan's been, you know, legit. A huge part of that. Huge reason why we've been successful is we got a lot of stallions, right? A. A lot of our LOS and branch managers. I'm going to post something later this week. I was looking at our top. What is our top 12 Dan of Los every month.

And geez, it's like, it's hard to get on that list now. You got to close 14, 15 loans a month, right? And I think, you know, to use some euphemisms or, you know, rising tide, lift all boats. Like, I like My competitive juices are flowing. Like, I got to level up, you know, with some of these los, or I'm going to get knocked off the list. You know, I got to go for it. And I know, Dan, you're competitive.

You.

You feel the same way, and you have that drive and energy that kind of helps all the Los, for sure.

Yeah. I mean, I feel the same way as you. It's. And it's hard because. Right. Last year, we popped off in June or July was huge, and we just skyrocketed. We just took off. And this year hasn't been like that.

This year has been very steady. Like, you know, the turtle versus the rabbit. Right. We've been a turtle, just steady. And I can't complain. The volume is very solid, and we're hitting our goals. But it's hard, right? You want to be in that top 1, 2, 3 spot. But I always say that, you know, what if.

If people are doing great and people are doing better than you? That means that something's working. That means that everyone's succeeding, and you don't want to be the only one succeeding and everyone else isn't. It brings down morale. It beats people up. So, you know, what? If I can come in rank number 10, and I'm making money and I'm doing good and I'm enjoying life and going on vacations and doing what I need to do, and my team is happy, and everyone else is beating me, that means everyone else in the company is happy. I'm not the smartest man in the world, but I'd say the company's doing something right. Right. Because you really want to look at statistics.

Who cares about numbers and what people sell and clothes and who cares if Dave Hollow is perfect? Hair is a number six. Just saying. But really, what you want to look at is look at the numbers from last year. You know, take a Jeff Shealy, and take a Lori, for example. I can't even say the words are inappropriate. Holy cow. I mean, their numbers have skyrocketed so much, it's unbelievable. So I see Lori beating me.

Let's go. That's great. That means she's working her tail off and she's reaping the rewards of what she's doing, you know, and a great company behind her is help pushing her along the way. What more do you need? So if I'm not number one because of that, I will take number 10, because that means everyone's just doing great, the company's supported, the company's strong, company's not Going under. The company's staying up with AI company's doing what it needs to do in order to propel everybody to the next level. Dave, you just have issues. You're never going to be there, guy. Sorry.

We'll see.

I'm lining up a monster. July Anderson. We'll see.

I access, I can move those in my name. You just won't know.

I love that because you know, when you're at a company where you're just constantly number one, sure, that's great, but it's lonely at the top. And I say this all the time. I'm such a believer that iron sharpens iron. You have to be around people that are going to sharpen you, that are going to, you know, have that and give you that nice competitive edge. I mean that's electrifying. That's how you get to the next level. Dan, talk to me about where you were numbers wise because I do think these numbers speak volumes. When you first started with HMA and then where you are now, because I think this is impressive and I think a lot of times people can say, yeah, I'm doing better, I'm doing great, but the proof is in the pudding.

You really have increased your volume and influence greatly.

Absolutely.

So I think $90 million is definitely on the mark. And that's without a big boom with rates dropping, without that big boom that we usually have right now that would propel us into some top leaderboard numbers. So right now Illinois is behind a little bit on something, but that's okay. That means it's coming. But I do think we should have some pretty big numbers. And again that comes down to systems coaches growth that we are offered with HMA and also changes right like so a lot of times loan officers are trying to look for that next big thing. You know, what's the next lead source? What's the next this, what about this program? And mortgage companies are like, we can't sign up for everything, guys. It doesn't work.

It's, it's, it's too much, it's too expensive. It's, it's mind blowing. Where HMA is like, hey, okay, let's sign this up for six months, get the whole company on it, training, push it really hard and out. That one's not working great. Now there's a new one and we've got a new one going on right now. I'm not going to mention it. And we're excited about it and we've heard about it for a long time. And nature made out of blue is like, you know what, we're going to try this.

We've dived into it. It makes sense. So that's what I mean when you have that support behind you that you don't realize you really need. Now, success is based on one person, right? It's yourself, it's nobody else. You wake up in the how you,

you got to do the work. And to be clear, Dan and his team, they're, they're doing the work. Yeah. We're just setting them up in a small degree for success.

So behind you as a loan officer, right. If you're out there, you're busting your tail, but you're just not getting the momentum. You're not going where you are. Your team isn't. Maybe you really need to look at the company. Maybe you really need to sit down and evaluate what you need to grow. And hate to put a pitch out there, but maybe talk to Dave like I did. It's game changing.

Proof is in the pudding. It's right there. Suddenly we're hiding it, right? Yeah, absolutely. Don't talk to Robert and Tom though. That's why they're not on here.

We got the A team today.

So. So what do you think was the defining moment for you, Dan? Because Dave meets your colleague and then it was probably a year and a half, two years later that you were like, okay, it's time to change. Do you remember what that catalyst was? Or that moment that you were like, okay, it's go time. I need to make a change.

Yeah. So, you know, it's nothing negative. I never want to talk negative about our company or. And I've only made two moves in my whole career, so I think that's impressive in 17 years. Because a lot of times people bounce. I feel like it was the last company. They're a great company for what they are and what they're doing. And I wanted to go here.

Right, yeah. Sometimes a company can only go so big, can only do so much. And it's hard. And that's why I think it's huge that we have three owners, we have three people that are propelling, holding each other together, pushing this company to the next level. I mean, there's times where Dave's gonna be sick, Dave's gonna be on vacation, Dave's gonna be focusing on his production, Dave's not gonna be 110%. But then there's Tom stepping up, but then there's Robert stepping up. That's the neat part. And I understand that because I have a few companies myself.

And it's hard. It's hard to keep up on your own. You have to hire great people, have great people around you. And so with the previous company, it was just simply, hey, I'm outgrowing this. I know where I want to go. I see what's happening with technology. You rephrase that. A company itself has to fundamentally have the financials and everything in order to grow where we're heading in 26, 27, 28, 29, 30.

I mean, if you're a loan officer, doesn't think that 27, 28 is going to be a completely different industry for you. You're sitting in the shadows, you're going to be left behind. Everything's changing. That company has to be doing that. That company has to see that, have the financials, have the backing, have the structure. Of the team to build all these different avenues of technology to get us to where we need to be. And I just didn't see that happen. And I was like, you know what? If I'm going to make a move, the move's got to be now.

And talking with Dave, Robert and Tom, I just, I saw it, you know, and I saw where they were going and what their vision was. And holy cow, it's the only word I can say on this because I can't say a different word. I want to use a different word. But they went from a good sized company to Dave, what do you guys. Over 2 billion now with this year?

Yeah, we should do right around 2 billion this year. Ish.

That's insane. That's 100% growth each year.

It feels normal, right? It doesn't feel out of control because we bring on, you know, great branch managers like Dan where we don't need to get involved in their business very often. I mean we're, we're here for Dan and our branch managers, but we're not micromanage them. Right. Dan runs his own shop.

So yeah, you guys, we have turbulence, right? It's like flying a plane. There's absolutely. You guys flow, you guys, we're landing every time. Perfect. And we're getting to our destination. It's, it's, it's impressive.

It really is. You know, you said something, you know, that kind of piqued my interest is, you know, there, there's a lot of like great smaller imbs in the another market. Kalamazoo, Michigan, middle of nowhere, Kansas. They're great companies. But this business is going to change, right? It's already changing. We can feel it. And the next three or four years are going to be really pivotable, you know, not pivotable. That's not a word.

Pivot, you know, can be. There's going to be some big. Yeah, well, tongue tied. And some people, some owners and some people just don't want to make change and that's okay. But their business is going to be adversely affected and they're only going to sell one thing and that's the race to the bottom and the lowest rate. Right. That's not who we want to be. And we want to, we want to be here 10 years from now.

So changes need to be made.

I agree with that completely. That's the main reason for us moving. That's what I saw was happening. And I just, you know, it also look at your volume too. If you are a significant part of that company's Volume. Yeah, that's a. That's a. That's a scary thing.

Yes.

Because you don't have, like, that's what I was saying earlier with HMA, if there's 10 people ahead of me, that means there's 10 people kicking butt and doing great. And the company's doing great, everyone's succeeding, and the company's making money. And we're able to do what's most important. Right. Provide the best service, the most competitive rate with what we offer to our clients, unparalleled service to our agents and support. Right. Those are big things. Well, that's what's happening.

So, yeah, it works.

Dan, how much of a play does social affect your. Your bottom line? I mean, I know you're really big on social media, but have you always been that involved with the social side of things? And how much is that really a part of your strategy? Not just a box you check?

And was that intentional? Did. Did you have a plan? You know, because you seem really comfortable on social and videos and so does some of your team. Like, I think, you know, jv, he's really good too. Like, did it take you a while to get there? And. And this was. This was intentional. This wasn't like Hurley Burley, you didn't have a plan, right?

No. So it's one of the things that you should have started sooner. Right. You see the trend, you see the wave, and you need to jump on it. And so I keep trying to tell these loan officers, jump on the wave. With the right company, it's happening. Don't get left behind. It's going to happen.

So social media, I knew that it was needed and I knew that things were changing. Going in and dropping off. Don't donuts at a close or donuts at a real estate office. That's not happening anymore. Getting in front of these agents like you used to isn't happening anymore. Doing a lunch and learn you your turnout's not that great. You know, sometimes it is. Things are evolving, though.

How do you stay in front of people, past clients and new clients, without doing the same old coaching where call your agents every Tuesday and bother them every single Tuesday. There's so many years, I'm like, they already know that the loan officers calling that this is a BS call and they want to take it. Well, how do you stay in front of them? Social media. And how do you stay in front of them in a passive way? Because everything in mortgages and real estate, I believe, is passive marketing. It's not active marketing. It's not, hey, guess what? I have a sale on this new gallon of milk. It's going to be cheaper because it's on sale or gas is cheaper and you need gas every few days. Mortgages and real estate are passive.

It's going to be something in the future. So you got to stay on top of their mind. And they know you, they like you, they want to work with you. So I started just doing social media and it was awkward, it was horrible, it was embarrassing. I look like a moron. I probably still do. But I just knew that in time it got easier and easier and easier and then you just feel more comfortable and you realize you just stop acting like you're talking into a camera. And it just came into play.

And yeah, it got easier. I think my first rip I did, which was a really good one, was when I first joined HMA Mortgage and it was like a three minute clip without one edit or any change. And it was like, do you just roll that out with no problem? Like, yeah, you know, there are some substances you could take beforehand.

No.

Just kidding. But no, it just works. I don't know. Practice happens. You get better by doing it and you simply be more comfortable too, right? Yeah, completely.

Yeah. Yeah.

You're really big on. And I've, I've taken a page out of this book that, this tactic that you use where you're sharing a lot of what your realtors are putting out there, I think that's really smart. When did you start doing that?

Recently, so over about a year ago. So I, I've been reading a lot of different things and rephrase that. Watching a lot of different things. Because Dave knows I don't like to read. He's working on getting me to read more. I'm doing audibles, but the algorithms and how things change. You want to stay in front of that and watch it. It's really your engagement and what you do for others.

Think about that. Right? That's what Instagram wants to see you do. Not me, me, me. I, I, I. It's teamwork and sharing. So how do you help out agents? Well, you're a loan officer. Share their stuff, help them grow. And you're doing it in a way that it doesn't cost you money and you're impacting and hitting a lot of people.

So I get a lot of agents that respond. Thanks for sharing. Thanks for sharing. Great. Can I get a follow back? Now they're watching my might have a client that's already seen three homes and they keep losing out and they're like, hey, wait a minute. JV did a post on Cash King. These guys have a cash offer program. It's only 500 bucks.

And we're ranked in the top 100 of the whole country for a quality service. And that's coming from agents and clients that we do business with. So, again, I think all that ties together and it works. And you can do LinkedIn, you can do TikTok, you can do Facebook. And yes, it's hard. There are certain tricks to make it a little bit easier, but eventually it just starts happening and you naturally organically grow. And that's probably one of the most unique things about my career, is I've really grown this business organically. I am not big on making cold calls and reaching out to agents randomly.

I've grown because agents are like, hey, you need to use my guy.

That he's really good.

And it just keeps going.

How often do you post?

I try to do minimum once a week and then I'll share every day, several times a day, engage in comments several times a day. I still do my happy birthday posts for as many people as I possibly can on Facebook. You could do your search on Facebook, put birthdays, and you can actually pin it. So it's right at the top of your search and you can always go right there. And that's a nice one, right? But I try to do as much as I can Monday chats. We miss a couple or we missed one, I think it was. We'll be doing one on this Monday with a awesome attorney, a friend of mine. But yeah, just as much as you possibly can.

If you come up with a topic, post it. You know, and sometimes I see people like raw things more than edited. You know, I've even done just a simple picture and that's gotten more likes and more views more than Take my Snowmobile one. I did a snowmobile post and it was simply Me pulling a wheelie and I got the haters of the haters that came out, but. 2.4 million views. 6 shares, 17,000 comments. 20 something,000 likes. Insane.

And I got people like, ripping on me. It give me a hard time about this. And it started getting to you that I was like, it doesn't actually really matter. So just post. And guess what? Now you have a whole bunch of followers and people that are liking you and your companies in multiple states. And now somebody's like, hey, you know what you do mortgages. You are still. I like Polaris.

Can you quote me on a rate? What?

So that's great. That's the differentiator, right? I think. I think that's a really important reminder for people because we constantly just want to add value and be the smartest person on social and give the content, which is great, but those moments that you actually just go for it and share who you are, and that's the difference. The differentiator, where it's going to kind of stop the scroll and people are like, how fast is this lunatic going on? I know I did, but. And even the haters commenting, it's like, well, thank you very much for building the algorithm, because, you know, the algorithm doesn't know what you're saying or if you're. You're. You're liking what somebody's doing or not liking, but it's. It's building the.

The audience. So that was probably a. A big one for you. So how many views did you have on that one?

I was over 2.4 million, I believe.

Oh, my gosh.

Wow.

I had a picture from Aspen, my birthday last year when I turned 41. I'm giving my age whatever. But we took a picture of me and my new kimosabe cowboy hat I had made, and Emily was right next to me. And that just went like 12,000 likes or something.

That's so funny.

Yeah. Who would have known if he was like, the picture? It fit what we wrote, it worked, and then it skyrocketed. So I do feel like in social media, you want to have a balance of everything. Not get too personal, not post too much. It's just a balance. And watch what other people are doing. Successful people are out there. They obviously are successful for a reason.

Yeah.

Follow well. And as much as we talk about social and the importance of it, I do think we have to say that influence isn't just about followers, which you kind of touched on in the beginning. Just as much as you're not your numbers, you're not your followers either. So, you know, making sure that you are owning your zip code and keeping things uber localized. Because yeah, it's great to have a million views or a couple thousand views even, but. But really it's about influencing the people that are in your direct circle. And I think you do that really well, Dan. I mean, you're doing some really cool things for the community.

I feel like we have to touch on your golf outing because it's great to do events, but then to be able to tie them to a charity that you are passionate about. Let's talk about that a little bit. Talk to me about Cal's Angels and the golf outing and how that all got started.

I want to go to so Restart. Is this our seventh year? Yeah. A golf outing. And of course, like, hey, this is a great idea till you start doing it. And you're like, this is a lot more work than we anticipated. What were we thinking? And of course, Margaret, she did a great job and has grown, evolve every single time. Last year was our best and biggest ever. We usually raise anywhere from a couple thousand dollars for a charity.

And it could be for veterans, could be for a kids charity, could be for animals. So we've done a lot of different ones. But last year I wanted to find a home. I wanted to find something that really motivated me and felt right. And so Kell's Angels was that I sat down with Stacy, the president of the company for Kell's Angels, which is pediatric cancer. Fight against pediatric cancer. God, it's emotional. I can't even talk about it.

It's even hearing her talking, her story about the whole thing is. Is mind blowing. So I do recommend looking it up because I'm not going to be able to do it because I've probably start getting emotional. But I love what they're doing and I love that they manage and watch every dollar of what comes in in order to put it to research and helping these kids and making things better. I know, and I'm going to say this incorrectly, but there was like a couple facilities on the east coast, one in Texas, another facility and on the west coast. And the problem is a family in Chicago would have to uproot their lives to go get treatment for their kids. Right? And that's just not fair. And there's no help, there's no nothing.

And then you got one spouse doing everything and one spouse doing everything over here. So they were able to get a facility opened here in Chicago, the pediatric cancer. So it's. It's mind blowing. What they're doing. And when I went to their gala, I was blown out the door. The support, the amount of money coming in from all the donations, and it was just. It was.

It's unbelievable. Something I've never experienced. So I said, all right, this is it. This is what we want to do. And if you know Stacy at all, you have a number here and she's like, well, how about this number? She's always just, you cannot. There's no no to her. She will get you to say yes eventually, somehow, even if you didn't mean to say it, you said yes. So we put a number at 20 grand and we hit it.

We hit it.

Nice.

So this year as our seventh annual, we already sold out on some of the biggest sponsorships. We're already doing very, very well. I think it's going to be the most attendance ever. But we go all out, right? Like the hole number one, you've got a dj, you've got smoked brisket and pulled pork, and I'm there for the longest drive. No holes got Joey Rowe, Red Hots. Another hole has a Ford Bronco, hole in one that you can win. We just have a lot happening. And then our food afterwards is all smoked barbecue ribs and everything else that you can imagine.

So it's really good food. We try to make it to where you're blown out the door from this event. And then we have a family from Kel's Angels that comes that talks about their experience and what they went through. Our donations, our raffles, everything is really top notch. We have a live band then inside, or a solo band, I should say. Again, just going above and beyond. So this year, I'm proud to say, I think we're already at 20,000. That's been donated by me and some other contributors.

But then the golf outing is the second part. So I do firmly believe that with the golf outing, what I've done so far, we should hit about 40,000 this year.

Nice.

That's amazing.

That's amazing.

Yeah, that's big. I mean, it's big numbers. I could never imagine being like, you know, you get these other charities, like, would you like to round up by the nearest dollar or, you know, give 500 bucks here? I would never imagine that I would get to a spot in my career that I could give back so much. And HMA's been part of that, right? I was going to say it, Dave. I'm not sure if I should, but I'm going to do it. But, you know, today, Tom, Robert, like, hey, What's a go, Right? If you're short, we're making up that goal. We're getting there. And last year was, like, 10 East.

That was like, oh, we're short by 800 bucks. And they're like, all right, no problem. And of course, they've done a lot of other things to make this whole thing happen, so don't take me wrong. But that just shows you the company sees the big vision, too, that it's not about the money. It's about meeting that goal, showing everyone that we give back, that we care, and we're more than just a mortgage company.

So if you're in Chicagoland, connect with Dan. If you like golf and good barbecue, it's. It's a great event.

Yeah. September 9th. Andersonteamgolf.com if you just want to do a donation, you can. And even if you just want to join the dinner part and not golf, you can. It's very flexible. It's a lot of fun.

Yeah, that's great. That's great. It feels really good to connect with. Well, hey, it's great to do events and to give back to charity, but when you really can connect with an organization that you feel. Feel deeply about, I mean, that is incredible. And to d. More than double and then hit these big numbers, that's. That's a God thing.

That's out of our hands like that. That's just amazing. I love that.

Our. Our agents and our attorneys, you know, some big referral partners, home inspectors, with what they're contributing and doing is unbelievable. One of our top agents took the top spot for the whole golf outing. It's a. Oh, wow. She's just like. As soon as it was posted, it was gone four grand. Here you go.

Take my money. I want to be the big dog in it. It was like, wow.

Yeah.

So how has that changed your. Your relationships with some of your referral partners? They're your people now.

Yeah. It strengthens it. You know, these. It's not like, hey, I have to do it, because I have to do it. It's now I want to do it. I want to grow this. I want to see it be something more. And we've had agents come in from South Elgin area, which is really far from us, you know, maybe 40, 45 minutes, 50 minutes, and they came down, and they're in Orland Park.

So I see this walk away an hour and 10 minutes, and they know people there, and they're like, holy cow. This is, you know, just. It's so big. Even though it's in one spot. It's people from all over the place that are coming, that are participating. So it's going to grown. It's only growing our strength. It's another way to stay in front of people organically.

Just like we have our racing event August 20th. I better make sure it's acid. I believe it is AI title. I should call it ait, but they have a huge racing event at the Autobahn and that's where top agents that the attorneys, not me, the attorneys invite their agents to come race. And a Ferrari, Lamborghini, McLaren, Porsche, all different types of cars with a professional in the car. And they actually get to do three hot lapses. So it's pretty awesome.

That's pretty cool. That's a once in a lifetime experience.

Absolutely.

I mean, it's not really a question, I guess, more of a comment. This is for both of you. I mean, I think that probably is the differentiator to a true partnership. Rather than just doing business together, you're doing life together and connecting with people who are aligned in your vision, aligned in your. It's not just a work hat that you wear. It's. It's the overall influence and doing business and life together better. I mean, I'm sure that.

I can't imagine how that wouldn't strengthen your relationships overall. I mean, David, know you do a ton for the community also and, and in Pittsburgh for your realtors. Do you find the same thing?

Yeah, I mean, engaging them on a more personal level, engaging them, you know, with all sorts of different events. 100%. I don't do as much cool shit as Dan. Certainly not doing race cars and stuff like that.

I don't know who does, but

it's. It's crazy on a lot of levels, but there's a lot of support and it's really the title company that it's their event. We're just fortunate to be a part of it and help with it. But, you know, I'll say, Rachel, what you just said kind of triggered something. So HMA does that instead of just working, you know, their culture and doing a cooking class, doing a virtual lunch together, doing Dave's book club, um, you know, the trips that we do. Even if you can't make it to the President's Club because you're just not hit there yet with your stats, which Dave, I don't know, man, I look at his leaderboard. This President's club's gonna be a lot bigger this year, I think.

Yeah, there's gonna be a lot of people There you're not even seeing a

lot of people who are you. Yeah, the intimacy might be going away, but that's a good thing. But the sales rally sack teams, there's just a lot there that brings the culture of the company together. And I think I like that a lot. And it's. Think you. You forget that, right? You. You overlook that piece when you don't have it.

I think sometimes you forget about it when you do have it because it's so natural inside this.

That gives you energy, right? It gets you. It gets you pumped up. Those are like intangibles. And we're just not like, you know, pimping out hma, but like any company you're at, if. If you don't have those little intangibles, right? If you feel you're an island, if you don't have any camaraderie with all the other los. Hurts your business, it hurts your psyche for sure. It's. It's.

You can't quantify it, right? You can't put a dollar figure on it, but it's there and it means something.

And it. It helps too, because. So my past experiences at companies, and it probably goes back to the first company that was there for about 10 years, I kind of felt that, right. I didn't feel like we all clicked. I didn't feel like we were all on the same team. You walk in the office and it was just stale. And you had a good old boys over here. I don't know, it just was different here.

You don't have that. It doesn't matter what level you are, who you are. Everyone's clicking, everyone wants to see the growth. And because we're even on separate group chats, we have like, you know, different people on different chats. You can see somebody that might be having a bad day, right? And I got the nickname Dave. I don't know if you know this or Rachel, but I'm owner Dan, because I always respond in a way that an owner would respond, right?

I like it.

I like it. Look at it. Let's not be, you know, crabbing the whole time about a situation like, you know, yeah, I understand this went bad with this broker, you know, non QM issue, but come on, did you do it this way? But I think that helps, right? Because then you're able to take other people in those different groups and they can help motivate each other and help each other out and push each other, you know, and I'll use that for myself. Dave, you said this earlier. You Know when I see one of their loan officers that their numbers weren't there and they're at the bottom, they're, they're on that top chart, but they're at the bottom and all of a sudden they just pass you up. You're like, hold on, wait a minute. That means what they're doing.

What happened?

Yeah, I need to step it up. What they're doing is working and it's consistency that makes it happen. So again, if I tell so many loan officers this, if you're stuck at a company and you're beating yourself up and you're waking every day up with no motivation, energy and this and that, you're just maybe step back, maybe do the pros and cons, maybe look at some other companies and not just us. Talk to other companies, get a feel, talk to five companies and see what you're getting from them. You're going to tell bs. I can tell you when you get several companies on the same page and they're saying the same thing, whether it's margins and rates and cost and, and what they're going to offer you, now you're actually getting onto some truth. Right? Because we're all the same. No company's got a magic out there.

Nobody's got anything that's going to be like, oh my gosh, this is going to be the best thing ever. No, absolutely. Once you start dialing in that three companies are about the same, they're offering the same. Now you're getting the truth, you're getting to some realism. Then it's the people. That is a camaraderie. What do they do? What do they give you? The owners, Dave, Tom, Robert, you know, how do I click with them? That's the part that HMA just goes and skyrockets. Hopefully I said it the right way.

That makes sense.

Yeah. One thing that's probably not positive, say if, if you're, if you're in a down, down mood, if business isn't good, if you don't have energy before you look at your company, look at yourself.

Yeah, I, I met that on a bigger scheme, a bigger grade. I know, I know. You know, you're just, you're, you're just, you're losing your momentum, right? And you can get there. You can even be a good loan officer. Closing three, four, five deals a month, that's a good loan officer. That's, that's good business and you just can't get there. You're, you're missing that edge. You're working weekends, you're working nights, you're burning yourself out.

Well, maybe something's missing. Maybe you need to look at what am I missing and how do I get to that next level. But yeah, if you're flipping companies every single year, you're trying to get that science bonus and all that garbage, it's all fake money. Right? Because money is never free. I don't understand how people don't comprehend that in this industry, even first time home buyers, money is never free for getting a grant. It's not free. Know the catches. That's not what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about guys that are, have come to HMA Mortgage and you see their volume from last year to this year growing significantly.

Yeah, that's not an accident.

Yeah, that's real. That's consistency, persistent things that you're doing to make sure you get to the next level. And hma, honestly, I say the word organically does that. They make sure you are on top of your game through all different facets, different people reaching out, different people watching you and not hounding you or being like, hey, you haven't hit your numbers. I've never had that call. It's more, hey, well, how to get you there? What do you need? What, what are you struggling with? Let's have a little coaching call. Let's do a one on one. I mean Dave, we still do our calls every other Tuesday.

Yep.

Yeah, a lot of times it's just

talking and it's, it's ad hoc and we're just connecting, that's all.

Yeah, I love that. And thanks for saying that Dan, because I feel like on all levels, whether it's marketing, sales, you know, we're really trying to be strategic. Strategic on how do we not only attract the best people but how do we keep the best people here? Because it's one thing for a recruiter to say all these things and get you here, but, but now how are we going to help you thrive? How are we going to help you get to what your goal is? And I've been at companies where it's, it's a numbers game. Okay. You're going to recruit and anybody with an NMLS in a heartbeat, we want them. Let's just throw enough crap against the wall and see what sticks. And that's not a culture, that's not where this, this industry, this world is going. It's about their relationships, it's about the community.

And, and I love that you said that because we don't just want everybody, we're not an exclusive Boys club or girls Club. But we want, we want the Dan Andersons of the world. We want the Lindsay labonte's and the Lori Nelson's and the, the malamuts of the industry. We want the best of the best because I think the, we're pretty freaking awesome. And, and I don't want to turn this into an HMA commercial, but I just, I love what we're doing.

Too late.

I know, I know

you feel yourself gravitating into it.

I know. I just, I love, I love what we're doing and I love the people that we're doing it with. So.

Yeah, that, that's, that's, that's well said, Rachel. I love what we're doing and we love what the people we're doing it with. Absolutely.

Because life's too short to work with.

Yeah. Dave will reach out to me on this random stuff even just on a. Health wise, we'll communicate on things or you know, hey, I'm going to be in Chicago where I should go to Rachel, you'll send me stuff on Instagram. We crack up on, you know, there's just a lot of human interaction that I felt like is was never really there and you got to try and

that was effortless and that is the difference. Guys, I feel like in this AI driven world we are craving relationship more than ever. And everyone's so worried is mortgage going to change? Is my job going to be here? Is AI going to take over? AI is never going to take over. Over the relationship. So that is the key factor. If you can't get that right. Like look around you, loan officers listening out there. Look around you see who you're surrounding yourself with and I don't know, we're good people over here.

We're good people doing good things, right?

Yep. Number one rule when we're hiring specifically for loan officers, we don't hire assholes. Yeah, don't hire.

That's right.

A couple slipped by, a couple of slipped by over the years. But that, that, that's, that's one of our guiding rules. It's, it's not one of our core, it's not one of our core values. Right, but it should be, it should be.

We should. I don't know if we could get that past compliance, but I think we probably. Well listen, Dan, this has been a great episode. I really appreciate your candidness and you know, you're just, you're fun, you're somebody. We want to be in your space more. Closing. Let's see, what would be Just a good closing question or do you want a question or do you have. Do you have any words of wisdom that you'd like to share and you

wrap up well, you know, I have something.

Oh, good. Okay, go ahead.

And then Dan can throw in something too, you know, just like in 30 seconds or less. For someone who is not doing social media on a regular basis, you know, I think we gotta. That's one thing about a lot of our los. We have a lot of. We have a lot of great los doing awesome stuff on social media. Dan is definitely, you know, in the conversations. Top one. What be what, what's advice that you give ellos who aren't doing any social media or any videos to get started?

Real simple. It's always a no if you don't ask, right? So if you don't do it, you're gonna get nothing out of it. Doing something is going to be one step closer to getting better at perfection. So, you know, it's, it's being younger, a single individual going up to a table of girls, right? If you don't do it, it's automatically a no. But you could be meeting that one. But you don't know unless you do it. Same thing with social media. You have to go and do it.

Just try. Even if you want to do a voiceover, even if you just want to share stuff, just get on there and try a little bit each day. Try to do something, try to make a video, try to post. And I guarantee you if you do it, you will get there. And I like it. There's things out there to help you. Social coach is one of them. I mean, makes it easy.

I like it.

Yeah. This has been great. Well, cheers to the last two years. Cheers to the next two years. Dan, we're so happy that you're part of the HMA fam and helping us grow and just, you know, doing this crazy life together like. And subscribe, guys, check out lending leadership.com. make sure you like and subscribe. Check out Dan Anderson.

Dan, what's your. Where can they find you on all the places?

Ah, so Anderson team Anderson with an S. Anderson team on Instagram and Facebook. Daniel Anderson. Really? Just type me on Instagram or Google phone number. We just start popping up everywhere. Spam calls are horrible.

I love it.

Love it, I love it. Thanks guys. Everything.

Thanks for being on today and we'll catch you next time. Thanks, guys.

Thanks, Dan. Bye.

Thank you, Sam.