Building a Powerful Mortgage Team: Insights on Coaching, Support, and Growth from Jen Butcher

It is a long game. Like you're signing up for a long game. And just think of it as your digital business card, because that's what it is. And then after a year of doing that, then I realized the impact of it. Like, people I had never met before recognized my name when I was calling a listing agent on an offer my buyer was making an offer on. And I said, hey, it's Jen Butcher. And they said, yeah, I know you never met the person before. I didn't really know them, but they knew me because they had seen me on social media.

And then I realized how much bigger of an impact it was than just trying to get direct consumer deals from being on social media. It was getting me appointments with agents I never would have gotten appointments with. I, like, probably tripled my referral partners after that year because people know who I was and were willing to meet with me. So it's. Yeah. And then it just kind of. Then it kept going because then I was passionate about it. And I'm like, I love marketing and I love sharing information.

And so that kind of spiraled into the podcast.

All right, so today's episode is a little more real, unfiltered conversation about growth reinvention, social media, podcasting, personal branding, what it actually takes. What it actually takes to evolve. After decades in the mortgage business, this episode leans more on conversational and personal branding and giving listeners, you guys, some actual behind the scenes advice and a look at career pivots. Yes, Jen, we all know about that identity shift. Staying relevant. We can all use that in this ever changing sea of the mortgage business. And what happens when you actually decide to evolve instead of staying comfortable? I think we can all take a page out of that book. I'm Rach, this is Jen Butcher.

Let's get into it. Welcome to Lending Leadership.

Thanks for having me, Rach, but you caught me at decades. Like, I like the experience in the business. Like, it makes me feel really old.

I know when I was writing this, this little opener, I was like, she's not gonna like that. She's not gonna like. But hey, guess what? I was like, yeah, I can say that and say she started in this business at 10 years old, but guess what? That is a feather in your cap for there. There's not a ton of loan officers who have been in this. In this industry for decades. I mean, that this industry has changed so much in 25 years. It really has. So own that, be proud of it.

And where we've been, where we're going, it is such a Great business to be in. It really is.

Yes. I love it.

So 25 years. You were in the same company for 25 years. Is this true?

Yeah, this is true. Long time. And working with my husband at that for 25 years.

How long have you guys been married?

We will be married 20 years in September, but we've been together, like, 34. A long time.

Okay, so. So you met in the mortgage business. You got married in the mortgage business. Like you've grown up in the mortgage business?

Yes, well, we actually met in college, but we started in the More he was in the mortgage business a year ahead of me and made it sound like it was the best thing in the world. So then I jumped in and clearly apparently liked something about it, because here

I am, I'm still here 25 years later. I mean, it's so interesting to hear how people have gotten their start in this industry. And a lot of people we've seen over the last, you know, three, five years have jumped ship. But for the people that are still here, you either had to evolve, make a change, do something different, because the modern loan officer. I was just listening to the guys, they have a great podcast coming out next week talking about that same, same thing. The tools and tricks that have worked in the last five years, they're not working anymore, so you have to do something different. And as we were talking yesterday, you know, you have done that. That great sign behind you, she talks money for your podcast, like you've done that.

So I want to dive into all of that today. But. But let's. Let's first talk about the obvious. You know, you were at your company for 25 years. What. What was the signal to say, hey, maybe. Maybe it's time to make a shift?

Yeah, there was a couple things. So there was a change in leadership, and that always shakes things up a little bit. I think the bigger thing was, don't get me wrong, I love being on the leaderboard. But if when you are consistently month after month at the top and you know there are companies and there are other loan officers that have numbers a lot bigger than you, it was like, hey, I love being a leader here, but in order for me to grow, I have to surround myself with people, people that are bigger and better than me, that I can learn from and be coached by to take my business to another level. So we decided to make a change. And I interviewed probably dozens of different companies. I have friends in at all different kinds of companies across the whole country through different coaching programs. I've been a Part of.

And so I just, I talked to a lot of people all over the place that I knew. And HMA stood out to me because a. First of all, when one of the owners is $100 million producer, it like that alone, I will say it trickles through the entire company. When somebody is at the top doing what your street level people are doing, it trickles through the whole organization. And I can tell you from someone who talked to a lot of different companies that stands out. And you can feel it in everything in operations and sales, management, like the way they structure things, that that was a huge standout. And then kudos. Um, the marketing team, obviously, marketing as we get into it, marketing.

Social media is a huge part of my business and my passion and how I've built my business. And that you guys had by far, by far the best marketing setup for how you work with your train teams, you let your teams brand themselves, how you support them. Coming from a social media mindset a lot of times, instead of necessarily just a corporate marketing, you know, standard, you know, cookie cutter that so many mortgage companies adapt. So those were the two biggest things. And there was also people in it. And it's also like cozy enough, big enough, but cozy enough. Right? Like, I didn't want to be at a company that's huge, that I'm just a number, but I wanted to be somewhere where there was growth potential as well, but yet still support. And people knew my name.

So. Because it's important for me to have an influence and I love helping and helping people grow and helping other teams grow and being a part of the leadership as well. So those were kind of all the big standout things about HMA for me.

Yeah, that had to be a really long and daunting process, I imagine, you know, being someplace where you know everybody and yes, you're at the top of the leaderboard. My son, he's actually, he's in eighth grade this year. He's going to high school next year. And, you know, it was just Mother's Day recently, and we're at a family party and my uncle saying to him, you know, make sure, Colt, that you are never the smartest guy in the room when you go to high school next year. Surround yourself with people who are smarter than you. And how often have we heard that advice? But it's so true at whatever stage we're at. And of course I've heard that advice, but when it was spoken to my son, I'm like, listen. Listen to that advice.

Please listen.

Take that to heart. And it is really true. When you're at the top of that leaderboard again and again, it just feels like, okay, well, you know, now what? You don't want to be the smartest person in the room. You don't want to be the most successful you. I'm a big believer that that iron sharpens iron, and that's on a multiple, you know, multiple levels. But when you're. When you're up there at the top, it's lonely. It's like, okay, well, who can I mastermind with? Who can I grapple with? It's lonely up there.

I just did a solo podcast episode on she Talks Money specifically for Women about this. Like, I used to listen to Ed Mylett's podcast during. I would listen to an episode during every workout, and I especially loved when he had really highly successful women on there. And there was one consistent message across all of them. The more successful you become, the smaller your circle gets. And that's true. And it's true. And you can broaden it again, but you have to put yourself in bigger rooms, because people just fall out.

They either can't keep up with you, or you find some people just don't support you. Like, they did want to support you. But it's kind of like I said, looking in a mirror, right? Like, you're. You represent sometimes a lot of fears people don't want to face or risks they don't want to take when you're doing it. And it all of a sudden becomes a competition, and they're not necessarily cheering you on anymore. So, yeah, it can get lonely. But then it's your job to make sure you're entering space where there are bigger and better people that you can then surround yourself with. So I love that.

Yeah, that's great. And I love. You know, as we were jumping on this podcast and chatting, you're like, oh, I have a circle of ladies here at HMA now that. That you guys mastermind and chat. I think that is so great. And it doesn't have to be just ladies, but, you know, sometimes us women, we like to gravitate towards the other ladies that get what we're going through. And the same thing with the men, too. You know, you gravitate towards people who are going through what you're going through.

Maybe at your level, you're not alone at the top anymore. And. Wow. I mean, the women that you mentioned, you guys are all powerhouses. Like, I love to see that. Absolutely love to see that.

I'm so excited. I'm so Just grateful to have them here with me because I do think that it is a little bit of a different experience. We're all very, you know, high achieving people. But I think there is a level of compassion that we also have to have because I. We talked about this before, too. I was coaching for almost a year. My coach was a very highly successful male loan officer. Does a ton of business.

He's excellent. I was coaching with him, but he's very core trained, right? And it was like, we're putting in this many calls and we're doing this and we're doing this and we're doing this. And I remember asking him one time, does your, does your wife work? And he's like, no, no. Like, she's at home with the kids. I'm like, okay, what could she do? What you do every single day and still do do all of that? And he was like, oh, not a chance. And I'm like, that's exactly what you're asking me to do right now. Because I run my household. I cook dinner, I meal prep, I grocery shop, I get my kids everywhere.

I do that. And, and I run a mortgage business. So to be surrounded by other women that are kind of in that same seat where we can support one another and cheer each other on when we feel like we're successful in business but failing as a mom. And then there's days where we're, you know, mom, rock star, but we feel like we're failing in our business. It's just, it's just a balance. It's a constant balance act day in and day out. And so it's fun to have people around that can understand that and kind of be there with you.

Yeah, yeah, it is. It's that balancing act. I mean, personally, I don't know how you do it, because my husband's like, he, he's just on it. He just, he says that I spend too much money, so he's like, I'm going to do the grocery shopping. And he's like, He's Mr. Foodie. So, I mean, I think I'm a pretty good cook, but I do the. You know, I would have the same thing every single week, but he just takes that on.

So to feel that, that pressure of, of doing everything, it is the balance. And in every family it's different. But yeah, it is the balancing act and sharing that pressure and seeing what works in one family. Okay, like this works for you. And especially in our business, in the mortgage industry, it is not, it is not like every other finance, you can't just say finance under that umbrella. Mortgage is very specific. It is very niche, and to be able to share that with other women is really important. So other lady loan officers out there, I'm going to come knocking at your door because we want to broaden.

Broaden this. This pool we got going here.

Yeah, the support here for the ladies is incredible. It's awesome.

Yeah. I do want to touch on something else you talked about. I want to get into that social media aspect and, you know, not just to pat our social media department on the back or our marketing department on the back, but I do think we have something very different in terms of how we treat our loan officers. We really do try to treat our loan office like clients. And Corrine is just amazing at this. This vision that she had for the marketing department. You know, she came from that agency background. So her idea to set this whole marketing department up was to set it up like an agency.

Right. To treat the loan officers like their clients. You know, treat them like their clients. That was, I think, so brilliant in doing that. And from every loan officer we've heard from, it's like, wow, okay, this really works. Talk to me about just when that shift happened in your business where you said, wow, okay, marketing and social media and podcasting and just branding in general. This isn't something that's going away. This is something that I really need to invest in.

This is something that I need to really carve out time for. Cause the big thing that I hear from loan officers is I just don't have time, like, can I pay someone to do this? I don't want to do it. It's annoying. I just want to be a loan officer, which, yes, we help people with. We really do. But it seems like you have just gone full force into this and really, it's created a life of its own.

Yeah, I mean, I started, I don't even know, five, six plus years ago. I started doing a little bit of video content, and then 20, 23 ish. Wait, 20. Whenever rates started to kind of start to climb and go up pretty significantly, I was finding myself like I was on repeat. I was repeating the same conversation with every client, with every real estate agent, because, you know, there was so much false information in the news as to what was going on, and I just felt like I had to share the truth. And I finally got so frustrated, and I was like, I just. I wish I could tell everybody this. And then I was like, well, I can tell more than just my.

The redirect People that I'm working with, I could share it on social media. And so I joined Neil Dingra's forward group and I made a commitment to myself that I am, I am putting out a video. At that point, it was three times a week for one year. Like come hell or high water, I'm putting out videos. And at that point, I was doing it all by myself. So I was researching, I was scripting it, I was filming it, as editing it, I was posting it. And there were days, like Saturdays, Saturdays are my. That's Jen day to sleep in.

That is like my catch up day because I'm a very early riser most days. And so and if, if it hit Friday night and I didn't have my third one produced or my next week set up, I would get up at 5 o' clock on Saturday morning and do it. And so that only happened like twice. And I was like, nope, not gonna let that happen again. And I did it for an entire year. And what I found. Go ahead.

I said, don't mess with my sleep.

Yeah, exactly. Then the people around me didn't like that either because I become a bear.

So.

But I. And after that year, people always come to me, like, doing social media. And I think a lot of loan officers think they're going to get an immediate effect from it. It is a long game. Like you're signing up for a long game and just think of it as your digital business card, because that's what it is. And then after a year of doing that, then I realized the impact of it. Like, people I had never met before recognized my name when I was calling a listing agent on an offer my buyer was making an offer on. And I said, hey, it's Jen Butcher.

And they said, yeah, I know you met the person before. I didn't really know them, but they knew me because they had seen me on social media. And then I realized how much bigger of an impact it was than just trying to get direct consumer deals from being on social media. It was getting me appointments with agents I never would have gotten appointments with. I like, probably tripled my referral partners after that year because people know who I was and were willing to meet with me. So it's. Yeah. And then it just kind of.

Then it kept going because then I was passionate about it. And I'm like, I love marketing and I love sharing information. And so that kind of spiraled into the podcast.

That's pretty cool that I wonder. That had to feel so good, that conversation with like, oh, you know me But I don't know, you probably have this little celebrity kind of moment, this little local celebrity kind of feel like, oh, it's actually working.

That. And I was recognized out in public once, too. That was like, this is what it must feel like to be a celebrity. Like, are you jambocha? I'm like, like, yeah, how do you know? And they're like, oh. And I'm like, that's right. But that only happened once. But it was my moment. Okay.

It was my moment.

You're probably like, okay, of course you remember who you're with. Were you with your husband, friends?

Oh, no, I was with other agents, which was like, the best setup ever, because they were like, oh, my gosh. That's like, wow, big deal.

Instant street cred right there. You're like, yeah, I'm kind of a big deal.

100%. That's great.

But, yes, that's. That's the ripple effect, right, where it's like. It's that slow feel, but then all of a sudden that picks up momentum and, yeah, we want that instant gratification. Of course we do. But it takes a while. It takes a long while. And then. When did you start your podcast? When did that.

I started my podcast. So we are officially. I should have checked. I think we're on, like, episode 54, 55. So that was another. I tend to make year commitments. So that was another. I am going to post once a week, and I'm going to post 52 episodes before I quit this to see how it goes.

Because the average podcaster, F Wave ii, have heard quits after, like, six episodes. Like five or six episodes. It's crazy. So I was like, no, I'm putting this out week weekly. And again, we're still at that point where I probably spend more money on my podcast than I. Well, I don't really make any money on my podcast directly, but I have had several referrals from guests that I've had on my podcast. Um, it's, again, it kind of like, you. You named it, like, street cred, right? Like, I have had more agents, partners come to me for personal finance advice.

Not necessarily just even mortgage advice, but, like, finance advice, because we talk about a lot of debt management and investments and invest. Buying investment properties and all kinds of different things. And they realize my knowledge base is. Is, you know, a lot broader and wider than just mortgages. And so that's earned me a lot of respect and just acknowledgement in the community itself as a resource, which I love.

Yeah, that's great. You're the, that mortgage fiduciary just doing right by everybody and giving them the, the information and knowledge that's, that's awesome. Who, who are. Or maybe, maybe not who, but some great conversations that have really stood out to you on the podcast that you've had in those 52, 53 episodes.

Yes. So one of my first guests, she may have even actually been my first guest, I had a guest on that is a financial therapist. So her background was therapy. She was a therapist and then took this super niche, unique category of like finance. So now she, she does therapy for people, but specifically around their finances. And she was the one that introduced me to kind of your money story. Like, and it was just so eye opening with like how I thought about money and like when you think about where you came from and what that background was, what the messaging was that you heard from your parents and then look at your own habits and how you're treating things. Like, she taught me a lot about that.

So she's like, she's fantastic. I learned a lot from her. And then though, I mean the podcast is she talks money, but it's really more, it's wider than that. It's not just finance, it's all specifically for women, just about feeling successful and what, what it takes to be successful and feel confident, you know what I mean? And so I've had people on with regard to, you know, my age and perimenopause and hormones and that impact. And so that was a great episode because I got a lot of follow up feedback and comments from people that were like, she shared a lot of stuff on there that I didn't know and I'm so grateful for that. So that was a super fun, rewarding episode because I think it helped a lot of people.

Wow, that's fascinating. We're going to have to link to that in the episode Here man. So she can be like, oh, the reason you're doing that is because of this, that happened in childhood. Or it's just because you lazy and you don't know how much you're actually spending, spending on Amazon. Get off your butt and go to the store. Although if you're like me, I will rationalize anything and be like, if I actually went to the store, I would be impulse buying and buying more.

So this is what I tell my husband all the time, but he doesn't believe me. And like if I was at Target, I would end up with a lot of things. I didn't actually go in for Amazon. I could just pick the One thing and deliver and it's a single thing. So I know it's show. It looks like a lot is showing

up, but really, yes, I know we can rationalize anything. That's fascinating. That's fascinating. I'm gonna have to check that episode out. That's great. You know, I love all of this, Jen, because again, in the episode we were just filming with the guys on our counterpart lending leadership with the mortgage pros, and we've talked about this in other episodes that we've had, you know, enter the scene. AI people are not just googling things anymore. They're going on Claude and ChatGPT and fill in the blank with whatever, whatever AI platform people like to use.

And they're just asking AI for a loan officer or for a real estate agent. And instead of, instead of Google just giving a list of agents or a list of loan officers, it's coming up with one answer, one generative answer. So by having all of these pieces of content, all of your podcast episodes, all of your great social media content, you know, everything that we have out there, the algorithm is pulling all of this together on AI and using that and hopefully pointing people to one. One answer. And hopefully that's you in your area. So I think loan officers listening to this, you know, if you, if you don't have a podcast or you don't know how to put that together, or you don't have a social media presence, I don't know what you're waiting for. You better jump on that train or join, join a team that does have that footprint because this is not going away and it's just going to get faster and faster. You know, that modern loan officer approach really is so important right now.

Tell me about your team. Tell me about what the future is, what that looks like. I mean, I know you've recently joined hma, but I know you're growing and I know you've got big plans. What's that look like?

Yeah. So right now our team is myself and my husband Dave. And Dave is Dave. Dave does a lot of, he works with a lot of builders, he does a lot of new construction. He kind of has his niche market that he works with, so he does him. And then I have Carrie, who is another loan officer on my team and Kelly is our licensed assistant. So she does all the front end work and is fantastic with clients and collecting documentation and all of that. And then we also have our own processor for our team, closer and underwriting people that we use as well.

So the future for the butcher Team is I really want to build a powerhouse team of women, specifically, because when I talk to a lot of people out there and a lot of loan officers, what I find is, and specifically women, is they are very eager, they're dedicated, they're motivated, but they don't necessarily have the right support around them. I always say, if I would have been coached the way I've been coached the last five years, 20 years ago, I might be retired. I might be retired by now because I would have been that much more successful. Right. And so I want to provide that for people. I've been through all the coaching. We have the platforms, we have the marketing in place where literally someone can come in and plug and play. It's.

And it's. It's a very supportive environment. I mean, I've been in realtor meetings with my loan officer, so she can see exactly how I would handle a meeting. She's come to closings with me to see exactly how I handle that. She sits with me while we make calls so she can hear exactly what, you know, how I'm talking on the phone. So it's a very, like, coachable environment where. Where people can come in and. And really learn how to build their own business.

And I'm not a gatekeeper. You know, I think a lot of people just bring on loan officers because it's all about volume. I'm all about, at this point in my career, I want to build up other people. So if I build you up to where, then start your own branch. Awesome. Good for you. Like, that would be a goal, if that's what you want. I'm not here to, like, just pigeonhole you into.

Into my team, but we want to grow, and we want to be known around here as one of the best mortgage teams.

That's amazing. I love that. I love that mentality. And you are in. I mean, people could probably guess from your. I hear that little bit swaying in there. You can pull it and you can turn it on, too. I've heard both sides of it.

Minnesota, I turn it on big time. This is like, really. I don't. I don't know what that was. But Minnesota, are you. Are you looking for people right in the Minnesota area? Are you. Are you all over the place? Because I know sometimes people have branches or, you know, that are remote.

Yeah, I would love to grow locally, but I'm also. Because Dave and I have been in the business for so long, we do have a lot of client base in Arizona and Florida because it's a little. It's a little chilly here. It's a little chilly here. And people like to go south for the winter during the cold months. So licensed in Florida and Arizona and Illinois are the biggest states that we work in and Wisconsin. So I'm open to hiring kind of anybody, anybody, anywhere really that just wants to be a part of a team. I think with the technology today and teams and zoom, like we can work from wherever.

So I'm open to. It's just, it comes down to the right person and if their personality and work ethic fits.

Yeah, that's great. I know it is. It's really amazing, right? If there's anything from tech that I do love is that we can be in remote places in just a minute and be able to function and work together. I mean honestly, we've been working together for a while now. Only met in person recently and it's pretty cool that we're able to do that. Let's see where else, anywhere else that we want to go. We could probably talk all day long about a million things under the sun. Anything else that we didn't hit on that we want to talk about?

I mean, I'm not. I'm gonna leave a teaser. Can I leave a teaser? I don't even know if you know this. I don't know if Caitlin's shared this with you or not yet, but I am one of the first here that is building something thing that is very agent focused for our agent partners. So again, another benefit to people joining our team is you get to plug and play to things that we're putting together tech wise and education wise for our partners. That is very attractive and makes them want to work with us and make their job. We're always just out to make their jobs easier and help them build their businesses. So something very exciting is being built.

It's in the works. Works. We're probably about halfway there. So we can. I'm gonna leave a teaser. I'm gonna dangle the carrot and leave a teaser and maybe next time I'm on we will share what, what it is.

Well, you gotta tell more than that. Little more.

Well, it's just going to be an amazing one stop place for our agents to go. And whether it's a single agent, a newer agent or a seasoned agent, or a team lead that has a lot of agents and they're a little bit overwhelmed with coaching and helping them. It is going to be an incredible resource that they can plug into for all things, whether it's negotiating a contract, whether it's Just understanding the. The general financing side of it enough to. To know what they need to know as an agent, whether it's plug and play social media. They want to build out a social media calendar and they're not really sure where to start or what to do for scripts or how to send a newsletter to a past client database. It's going to be a go to spot that is going to make their lives incredibly easy and make them look very professional.

That's really exciting. I know little bits of this. I don't know the full story. So even I'm like, ooh, I want more. Give me more. Okay, well, we're gonna have it when it's fully built, ready to go. We're gonna have to have a full episode just on that. You heard it here first.

Yes, that's right. It's gonna be awesome. It's gonna be awesome.

I love it. This was great. Thank you so much, Jen. I can't wait to chat more. So many exciting things happening this year.

Yeah.

Thanks for tuning into Lending Leadership. Don't forget to check it. Check out she talks money. We'll catch you next time. Thanks, Jen.

Thanks, Sam.